LGBT+ movement starting to backfire (part 2)

Drifter

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Perhaps if transgenderism was not so unfairly stigmatized in general our society would recognize the need for readily-available therapeutic resources, and we would not see this type of lashing out and frustration. Instead of being reactionary, we could be better humans and ask: “you seem very lonely, how can we help?”
If transgenderism were still considered a mental illness suffered by people who need help instead of having to rewrite biology, the sexual preferences of 90% of the world's population and language, then maybe there wouldnt be such a stigma in the first place. It's the denial of reality that creates stigma.
 
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Drifter

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I disagree. It’s definitely relevant to this topic. “Closeted gay men” is a bit too stereotypical. Sure, they likely account for a small portion. I have no data to back this up, so call it a hunch... many are just men who hate some small portion of themselves that happens to entertain bi-curious thoughts or whatever, so when they see this part of themselves openly represented within another person, it’s like looking in the mirror and only seeing exactly what you hate about yourself. Basic psychological projection- we ALL project our insecurities upon others to some degree.

Also, it’s not that it’s always about men, it just happens to be more socially-stigmatized as “unmanly” and considered as something to be embarrassed about for men than it is for women.
It is irrelevant to this topic. You hammer on about it when it has nothing to do with the topic. You yourself brought up sexual hypocrites who are homophobic/transphobic but secretly desire to have sex with the same sex. Closeted men. That has nothing to do with people of all sexual identities reacting strongly to TRA rhetoric that they have a right to people's bodies. Plus society has never been gayer. Gay and gender non-conforming men are celebrated all the time in media so it's hardly the don't-ask-don't-tell era. If men have internalized homophobia it certainly isnt because of the current cultural climate. But they should do themselves and especially any women they may be using as covers a favour and just come out. It's not fair all around.
 
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If transgenderism were still considered a mental illness suffered by people who need help instead of having to rewrite biology, the sexual preferences of 90% of the world's population and language, the maybe there wouldnt bebsuch a stigma in the first place. It's the denial of reality that creates stigma.
Hmm.. is mental illness also unfairly stigmatized in our society or something? You don’t say! Lol

Guess what has been proven the most effective form of treatment for those who suffer with gender dysphoria? (Hint: it’s transitioning)
 
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It is irrelevant to this topic. You hammer on about it when it has nothing to do with the topic. You yourself brought up sexual hypocrites who are homophobic/transphobic but secretly desire to have sex with the same sex. Closeted men. That has nothing to do with people of all sexual identities reacting strongly to TRA rhetoric that they have a right to people's bodies. Plus society has never been gayer. Gay and gender non-conforming men are celebrated all the time in media so it's hardly the don't-ask-don't-tell era. If men have internalized homophobia it certainly isnt because of the current cultural climate. But they should do themselves and especially any women they may be using as covers a favour and just come out. It's not fair all around.
As if this sort of thing would not bring out the insecure males with repressed bisexual urges in DROVES... gimme a break.
 

Drifter

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Hmm.. is mental illness also unfairly stigmatized in our society or something? You don’t say! Lol

Guess what has been proven the most effective form of treatment for those who suffer with gender dysphoria? (Hint: it’s transitioning)
You're not getting it. Mental illness itself should be destigmatized, yes. But what riles most people up is bastardizing language (including medical language), pretending that there are no reasons men might want to exclusively be with biological women or vice versa, or people refusing to acknowledge predators in the trans population who may use trans rhetoric to hide themselves (as predators exist in every demographic). The hypocrisy here is uoure all too willing to harp on about the sexually-confused bigots who hide out in the Superstraight movement yet dont offer the same criticism to trans predators who do the same thing in theirs. Biased much?
 
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Drifter

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As if this sort of thing would not bring out the insecure males with repressed bisexual urges in DROVES... gimme a break.
Except the loudest voice against this HAS BEEN WOMEN. Why? Because they've been disproportionately effected by this whole thing. So a percentage of sexually confused men fear for their masculinity, okay. Women have been assaulted in prisons, homeless shelters, fired for refusing to provide intimate female-exclusive services to trans women, threatened for not being willing to date one and have had their sexuality completely invalidated. Women have been linguistically erased, young girls had their sports scholarships lost to biological boys. Do you see any of this? Women are mostly speaking out. "Superstraight" is one facet of a much larger issue. Again, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. If you actually paid attention to the discourse in social media, most of the men who do comment on it are not transphobic or homophobic -they stand with gay men to be exclusively attracted to the same SEX. Even the creator of the whole thing said he doesnt stand with anyone who uses the term to bully or invalidate trans people, he simply made the term up as a meme in RESPONSE to accusations leveled against him for being transphobic (because he only wants to date bio women). It may speak more to your own sexual repression but not every man has latent homosexual urges like you seem to be so convinced of and this issue is much more serious than what you're trying to make it out to be.
 
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You're not getting it. Mental illness itself should be destigmatized, yes. But what riles people up is bastardizing language (including medical language), pretending that there are no reasons men might want to exclusively be with biological women or vice versa, or people refusing to acknowledge predators in the trans population who may use trans rhetoric to hide themselves (as predators exist in every demographic).
I’m just being realistic because online visibility relies mostly on sensationalism across the board. “men who might want to exclusively be with biological women” describes me, actually, yet I don’t understand the need to get all defensive and start insisting I’m “super straight” in reaction to some online bullying. I think people tend to get too wrapped up and emotionally attached, and don’t realize when they begin to give virtual spaces more and more undue attention. It’s not healthy behavior for anyone.

I will definitely advocate for anyone who is being victimized for any reason, but I don’t need to clumsily assert my “straightness” in order to do this. It’s just super cringey, for obvious reasons.
 
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“Oh no! My ultra-normative and 100% already-socially-acceptable identity is under some serious threat for real you guys!” This just sounds ridiculous. Let’s be honest. It’s not a good look. It’s actually a bit selfish to respond to actual bullying in this way. We can do far better than this, or at least I would hope so.
 

Drifter

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I’m just being realistic because online visibility relies mostly on sensationalism across the board. “men who might want to exclusively be with biological women” describes me, actually, yet I don’t understand the need to get all defensive and start insisting I’m “super straight” in reaction to some online bullying.
You sure? Coz you seem awfully invested in repressed male sexuality for someone who doesn't give a shit. The fact thay you think this is just online bullying either shows you dont know what is going on or you have no empathy for the people I mentioned, especially the women who have had to deal with real consequences of rampant trans ideology.

I think people tend to get too wrapped up and emotionally attached, and don’t realize when they begin to give virtual spaces more and more undue attention. It’s not healthy behavior for anyone.
And when it bleeds out into real scenarios and policies like any of the ones I mentioned?

I will definitely advocate for anyone who is being victimized for any reason, but I don’t need to clumsily assert my “straightness” in order to do this. It’s just super cringey, for obvious reasons.
No you wouldn't. Because then you would understand why some of the people have grabbed onto this movement as hard as they have. And again, you miss the point of the movement entirely. Its not a incel/4Chan/alt right troll fest. It's not a show of toxic machismo against the epidemic levels of male bi curiosity you seem to be propositioning.
 

Drifter

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“Oh no! My ultra-normative and 100% already-socially-acceptable identity is under some serious threat for real you guys!” This just sounds ridiculous. Let’s be honest. It’s not a good look. It’s actually a bit selfish to respond to actual bullying in this way. We can do far better than this, or at least I would hope so.
. . . someone who clearly doesnt care that women and girls have been actual victims of radical trans ideology and policy.
 

Drifter

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Except the loudest voice against this HAS BEEN WOMEN. Why? Because they've been disproportionately effected by this whole thing. So a percentage of sexually confused men fear for their masculinity, okay. Women have been assaulted in prisons, homeless shelters, fired for refusing to provide intimate female-exclusive services to trans women, threatened for not being willing to date one and have had their sexuality completely invalidated. Women have been linguistically erased, young girls had their sports scholarships lost to biological boys. Do you see any of this? Women are mostly speaking out. "Superstraight" is one facet of a much larger issue. Again, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. If you actually paid attention to the discourse in social media, most of the men who do comment on it are not transphobic or homophobic -they stand with gay men to be exclusively attracted to the same SEX. Even the creator of the whole thing said he doesnt stand with anyone who uses the term to bully or invalidate trans people, he simply made the term up as a meme in RESPONSE to accusations leveled against him for being transphobic (because he only wants to date bio women). It may speak more to your own sexual repression but not every man has latent homosexual urges like you seem to be so convinced of and this issue is much more serious than what you're trying to make it out to be.
@Faker He-Man Ignoring this wont make it go away. Give these cases a Google buddy.
 
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. . . someone who clearly doesnt care that women and girls have been actual victims of radical trans ideology and policy.
So by your logic, victims of online bullying are not “actual victims”? Got it.
Kidding aside, I will admit I have kept my distance from this one for reasons I’ve already explained. Transphobia is still the larger issue here, not to de-legitimize any victims. Like I mentioned, if it were easier for trans people to access therapeutic resources, they would have learned how to cope without projecting their loneliness onto others. It’s the same situation with insecure males, who are a far more common product churned out by our social structures. If “therapy” wasn’t a dirty word to so many men, they would not have to just remain miserable with unaddressed inner turmoil for an entire lifetime like in the past. A lifetime of silent suffering being the best case scenario here, since other times it can end very badly.
 

Drifter

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So by your logic, victims of online bullying are not “actual victims”? Got it.
Kidding aside, I will admit I have kept my distance from this one for reasons I’ve already explained. Transphobia is still the larger issue here, not to de-legitimize any victims. Like I mentioned, if it were easier for trans people to access therapeutic resources, they would have learned how to cope without projecting their loneliness onto others. It’s the same situation with insecure males, who are a far more common product churned out by our social structures. If “therapy” wasn’t a dirty word to so many men, they would not have to just remain miserable with unaddressed inner turmoil for an entire lifetime like in the past. A lifetime of silent suffering being the best case scenario here, since other times it can end very badly.
So transphobia is a bigger issue than protecting predators hiding under the skirts of TRAs, little girls losing their sports scholarships, grown female athletes getting injured in what is supposed to be sex-segregated combat sports and women being assaulted and harassed for being lesbians who dont want the D? Got it. Nice to know your priorities are right. I hope to God you're not actually straight.
 
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So transphobia is a bigger issue than protecting predators hiding under the skirts of TRAs, little girls losing their sports scholarships, grown female athletes getting injured in what is supposed to be sex-segregated combat sports and women being assaulted and harassed for being lesbians who dont want the D? Got it. Nice to know your priorities are right. I hope to God you're not actually straight.
I meant it’s the larger issue as in greater, all-encompassing, the root source of all of these growing pains. We should have already figured ALL of this stuff out a looonng time ago. We certainly have the capability, but we decided to put it off until now for some strange reason that is on the tip of my tongue but I can’t quite recall. Maybe you can jog my memory.
 

Drifter

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I meant it’s the larger issue as in greater, all-encompassing, the root source of all of these growing pains. We should have already figured ALL of this stuff out a looonng time ago. We certainly have the capability, but we decided to put it off until now for some strange reason that is on the tip of my tongue but I can’t quite recall. Maybe you can jog my memory.
These are not growing pains, these are crimes. Its sexism to a destructive degree. Is it not part of the transitioning process to consult a gender therapist to confirm if you are actually trans or not? Do they not continue seeing this therapist throughout the duration of their transition? There are arguably way more trans people in therapy than the cis population. That hasn't changed how their activists fought for policies that allowed for axtual harm to happen innocent people including children. But good to know where your priorities lie. You clearly hate women.
 
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As far as athletic competition, there is a very simple and fair solution that no one on either side wants to hear: No more exclusively male sports divisions. Open them up to all genders to compete, and only have biological gender restrictions and separate divisions for women. (Which will still be unfairly dominated by biological women who naturally have high testosterone anyway, but that’s another discussion.)
 
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These are not growing pains, these are crimes. Its sexism to a destructive degree. Is it not part of the transitioning process to consult a gender therapist to confirm if you are actually trans or not? Do they not continue seeing this therapist throughout the duration of their transition? There are arguably way more trans people in therapy than the cis population. That hasn't changed how their activists fought for policies that allowed for axtual harm to happen innocent people including children. But good to know where your priorities lie. You clearly hate women.
You lost me but ok. if you say so...
 

Drifter

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@Faker He-Man I am now more than ever convinced you're an actual troll or am establishment puppet. There was no issue with sports being sex segregated. Bio women with higher testosterone levels are not a common enough occurrence for it to be a comparative example. Never mind that I specifically brought up combat sports which makes the male skeleton and muscle composition a potential dangerous advantage over female athletes, some of whom were already hospitalized by transwomen.
 
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