JoChris
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Victory for the woman who "had the hide" to say (only) women have vaginas.
LGBT+ movement starting to backfire (part 2)
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JoChris
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From Twitter link above https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19359567.abertay-university-student-lisa-keogh-cleared-investigated-saying-women-vaginas/
A LAW student who was investigated by a Scottish university for saying women have vaginas and are not as strong as men has been cleared of any wrongdoing.
Lisa Keogh, 29, was investigated by Abertay University after classmates complained she had made “offensive” and “discriminatory” remarks at a lecture.
She had argued the difference in strength between the sexes meant it was not fair that women should have to compete against trans women in sport.
She has now received a letter from the Chair of the Student Disciplinary Board informing her all the complaints against her have been dismissed.
Ms Keogh, who was supported by the SNP MP Joanna Cherry QC and the Free Speech Unuion, said she was delighted at the victory but saddened the episode took place.
She said she had been targeted in a “modern day witch hunt” because of her gender critical views and belief in sex-based rights, and accused Abertay of being “needlessly cruel” in dragging on an the investigation for two months during her final year exams.
She also said she would no longer feel comfortable attending her graduation.
The university has stressed the allegations were not in relation to Ms Keogh's personal opinions, but to alleged behaviour in class, including in some online breakout rooms.
READ MORE: Feminist campaigner charged with 'hate crime'
Ms Keogh said: “Yesterday I received a letter from Abertay University dismissing all the complaints made against me. This is a victory. As overjoyed as I am about this decision, I am saddened that I went through this at such a critical time in my university career.
“The very end of my period at Abertay is now tarnished with these bad memories and I worry that my final grades will have been affected by this.
“I will not feel comfortable attending any graduation event.
“Although Abertay has decided I’m innocent of all charges, the ordeal I have been through has been a punishment in itself. I hope that Abertay University can learn from this experience and not put other students through a similar ordeal just for voicing their opinions.
While I may no longer be a student at the University, it is still vital to me that others have the opportunity to take part in lively open debates without worrying about being punished afterwards.
“If Abertay just carries on as before, this journey will have been for no good reason.”
She went on: “Although Abertay denies this, it was my gender critical views that led to me being investigated by the University and this should never have happened.
"I know the University has a duty to investigate all complaints, but to draw this process out for two months while I was taking my final exams was needlessly cruel.
“The University should put a process in place that will enable it to judge what complaints need to be investigated and which ones can be dismissed immediately because they’re vexatious and politically motivated.
“I always knew the complaints made against me were groundless and now the Student Disciplinary Board has confirmed that.
“I was targeted because of my gender critical views – it was a modern day witch hunt.
“My time studying law at Abertay has made me aware that there are legal avenues open to me to stop this kind of thing happening to other women.
"No woman should face discrimination in the way I have because she believes in sex-based rights.
“I want to say a special thank you to the Free Speech Union for helping me through this stressful time, in particular Fraser Hudghton, the Case Management Director, who has been on hand at all hours to answer my calls and navigate me through this.
“I also want to say a massive thank you to the SNP MP Joanna Cherry who is someone who I look up to. The fact that she had my back throughout gave me the strength to carry on.
READ MORE: Adam Tomkins: Free speech matters — even when it’s offensive
Ms Cherry added: “I’m pleased at this outcome. But Lisa should never have been put through this ordeal in the first place and the University should review its free speech and equality policies to make sure that future students are not subject to the stress of spurious complaints nor discriminated against, harassed or victimised for their beliefs."
Free Speech union general secretary Toby Young said: “It should have been obvious that the complaints against her were due to her gender critical views, not the manner in which she expressed them. In a seminar on gender, feminism and the law there should be room for a range of views, from militant trans activism to traditional feminism.
“Lisa deserves a huge amount of credit for standing up for herself. The path of least resistance would have been to apologise and renounce her heretical belief, but instead she fought her corner. Thanks to her courage, there is now space for a broader range of views at Abertay – it is no longer taboo to defend sex-based women’s rights.”
A spokesperson for Abertay University said: “Under normal circumstances the University does not comment on student disciplinary cases, however as the student involved in this case has chosen to comment publicly we feel it is necessary for us to do so on this occasion.
“As we have previously stated, the University is legally obliged to investigate all complaints. This does not mean every element of a complaint about a student becomes the subject of a disciplinary case.
“Contrary to misleading statements by some commentators who view this as a case about gender identity, Lisa Keogh was not subject to disciplinary action for expressing so-called ‘unacceptable opinions’ about gender identity, or any other topic.
“Ms Keogh met with a student disciplinary board on Monday to consider a single element of an initially complex complaint, which fell within the scope of the Code of Student Discipline. This concerned a complaint about the behaviour of Ms Keogh in class.
“The disciplinary panel did not uphold the complaint against Ms Keogh.
“As previously stated, our Code of Student Discipline does not constrain lawful free speech, but does cover student behaviour.
“The University is committed to upholding freedom of speech on campus and we will continue to actively encourage open and challenging debate at Abertay.”
A LAW student who was investigated by a Scottish university for saying women have vaginas and are not as strong as men has been cleared of any wrongdoing.
Lisa Keogh, 29, was investigated by Abertay University after classmates complained she had made “offensive” and “discriminatory” remarks at a lecture.
She had argued the difference in strength between the sexes meant it was not fair that women should have to compete against trans women in sport.
She has now received a letter from the Chair of the Student Disciplinary Board informing her all the complaints against her have been dismissed.
Ms Keogh, who was supported by the SNP MP Joanna Cherry QC and the Free Speech Unuion, said she was delighted at the victory but saddened the episode took place.
She said she had been targeted in a “modern day witch hunt” because of her gender critical views and belief in sex-based rights, and accused Abertay of being “needlessly cruel” in dragging on an the investigation for two months during her final year exams.
She also said she would no longer feel comfortable attending her graduation.
The university has stressed the allegations were not in relation to Ms Keogh's personal opinions, but to alleged behaviour in class, including in some online breakout rooms.
READ MORE: Feminist campaigner charged with 'hate crime'
Ms Keogh said: “Yesterday I received a letter from Abertay University dismissing all the complaints made against me. This is a victory. As overjoyed as I am about this decision, I am saddened that I went through this at such a critical time in my university career.
“The very end of my period at Abertay is now tarnished with these bad memories and I worry that my final grades will have been affected by this.
“I will not feel comfortable attending any graduation event.
“Although Abertay has decided I’m innocent of all charges, the ordeal I have been through has been a punishment in itself. I hope that Abertay University can learn from this experience and not put other students through a similar ordeal just for voicing their opinions.
While I may no longer be a student at the University, it is still vital to me that others have the opportunity to take part in lively open debates without worrying about being punished afterwards.
“If Abertay just carries on as before, this journey will have been for no good reason.”
She went on: “Although Abertay denies this, it was my gender critical views that led to me being investigated by the University and this should never have happened.
"I know the University has a duty to investigate all complaints, but to draw this process out for two months while I was taking my final exams was needlessly cruel.
“The University should put a process in place that will enable it to judge what complaints need to be investigated and which ones can be dismissed immediately because they’re vexatious and politically motivated.
“I always knew the complaints made against me were groundless and now the Student Disciplinary Board has confirmed that.
“I was targeted because of my gender critical views – it was a modern day witch hunt.
“My time studying law at Abertay has made me aware that there are legal avenues open to me to stop this kind of thing happening to other women.
"No woman should face discrimination in the way I have because she believes in sex-based rights.
“I want to say a special thank you to the Free Speech Union for helping me through this stressful time, in particular Fraser Hudghton, the Case Management Director, who has been on hand at all hours to answer my calls and navigate me through this.
“I also want to say a massive thank you to the SNP MP Joanna Cherry who is someone who I look up to. The fact that she had my back throughout gave me the strength to carry on.
READ MORE: Adam Tomkins: Free speech matters — even when it’s offensive
Ms Cherry added: “I’m pleased at this outcome. But Lisa should never have been put through this ordeal in the first place and the University should review its free speech and equality policies to make sure that future students are not subject to the stress of spurious complaints nor discriminated against, harassed or victimised for their beliefs."
Free Speech union general secretary Toby Young said: “It should have been obvious that the complaints against her were due to her gender critical views, not the manner in which she expressed them. In a seminar on gender, feminism and the law there should be room for a range of views, from militant trans activism to traditional feminism.
“Lisa deserves a huge amount of credit for standing up for herself. The path of least resistance would have been to apologise and renounce her heretical belief, but instead she fought her corner. Thanks to her courage, there is now space for a broader range of views at Abertay – it is no longer taboo to defend sex-based women’s rights.”
A spokesperson for Abertay University said: “Under normal circumstances the University does not comment on student disciplinary cases, however as the student involved in this case has chosen to comment publicly we feel it is necessary for us to do so on this occasion.
“As we have previously stated, the University is legally obliged to investigate all complaints. This does not mean every element of a complaint about a student becomes the subject of a disciplinary case.
“Contrary to misleading statements by some commentators who view this as a case about gender identity, Lisa Keogh was not subject to disciplinary action for expressing so-called ‘unacceptable opinions’ about gender identity, or any other topic.
“Ms Keogh met with a student disciplinary board on Monday to consider a single element of an initially complex complaint, which fell within the scope of the Code of Student Discipline. This concerned a complaint about the behaviour of Ms Keogh in class.
“The disciplinary panel did not uphold the complaint against Ms Keogh.
“As previously stated, our Code of Student Discipline does not constrain lawful free speech, but does cover student behaviour.
“The University is committed to upholding freedom of speech on campus and we will continue to actively encourage open and challenging debate at Abertay.”
JoChris
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Massive story has just broken:
www.bbc.com
Maya Forstater: Woman wins tribunal appeal over transgender tweet
A woman who lost her job after saying that people cannot change their
biological sex has won an appeal against an employment tribunal.
Maya Forstater, 47, did not have her contract renewed after posting tweets on gender recognition.
She lost her original case in 2019, with the judge at that point saying that her approach was "not worthy of respect in a democratic society".
An appeal found the tribunal had erred in law and another should take place.
She believes trans women holding certificates that recognise their transgender identity cannot describe themselves as women.
Ms Forstater said she was "delighted to have been vindicated" but CGD said the decision was a "step backwards for inclusivity and equality for all".
In the initial tribunal employment judge James Tayler concluded that Ms Forstater was "absolutist" in her view and said she was not entitled to ignore the rights of a transgender person and the "enormous pain that can be caused by misgendering".
But the Honourable Mr Justice Choudhury said her "gender-critical beliefs" did fall under the Equalities Act as they "did not seek to destroy the rights of trans persons".
He acknowledged that some transgender people would be disappointed by this judgement, but said that the judgement had not "expressed any view on the merits of either side of the transgender debate".
The judgement does not mean "that those with gender-critical beliefs can 'misgender' trans persons with impunity", he added.
Amanda Glassman, executive vice president of CGD, said: "The decision is disappointing and surprising because we believe Judge Tayler got it right when he found this type of offensive speech causes harm to trans people, and therefore could not be protected under the Equality Act.
"Today's decision is a step backwards for inclusivity and equality for all. We're currently considering the various paths forward with our lawyers."
In a video statement, Ms Forstater said "I'm proud of the role I've played in clarifying the law and encouraging more people to speak up".
Maya Forstater: Woman wins tribunal appeal over transgender tweets
Maya Forstater lost her job at a think tank over tweets saying people cannot change their biological sex.
www.bbc.com
A woman who lost her job after saying that people cannot change their
biological sex has won an appeal against an employment tribunal.
Maya Forstater, 47, did not have her contract renewed after posting tweets on gender recognition.
She lost her original case in 2019, with the judge at that point saying that her approach was "not worthy of respect in a democratic society".
An appeal found the tribunal had erred in law and another should take place.
- Changes to gender recognition laws ruled out
- What does transgender mean and what does the law say?
- Cost of changing legal gender reduced to £5
She believes trans women holding certificates that recognise their transgender identity cannot describe themselves as women.
Ms Forstater said she was "delighted to have been vindicated" but CGD said the decision was a "step backwards for inclusivity and equality for all".
In the initial tribunal employment judge James Tayler concluded that Ms Forstater was "absolutist" in her view and said she was not entitled to ignore the rights of a transgender person and the "enormous pain that can be caused by misgendering".
But the Honourable Mr Justice Choudhury said her "gender-critical beliefs" did fall under the Equalities Act as they "did not seek to destroy the rights of trans persons".
He acknowledged that some transgender people would be disappointed by this judgement, but said that the judgement had not "expressed any view on the merits of either side of the transgender debate".
The judgement does not mean "that those with gender-critical beliefs can 'misgender' trans persons with impunity", he added.
Amanda Glassman, executive vice president of CGD, said: "The decision is disappointing and surprising because we believe Judge Tayler got it right when he found this type of offensive speech causes harm to trans people, and therefore could not be protected under the Equality Act.
"Today's decision is a step backwards for inclusivity and equality for all. We're currently considering the various paths forward with our lawyers."
In a video statement, Ms Forstater said "I'm proud of the role I've played in clarifying the law and encouraging more people to speak up".
JoChris
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UK women should rejoice, and this story should go international.
Early response tweets to above story:
Early response tweets to above story:
kerrichinchilla
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Have to say I do love living in England at the moment. Seems we won't take non of this trans/gender rubbish
kerrichinchilla
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Well that's interesting
JoChris
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Several interesting videos on my recommended list this morning:
Graham Linehan's discussion with friends about Maya Forstater's historic win.
Maya Forstater turns up approx 19th minute to give a quick hello. She understandably looked very happy.
-----
What revealing stories from these young women, now detransitioners. One admitted she tried to escape from a lot of unpleasant sexual harrassment while growing up via changing sex. What a shame her voice has permanently changed "thanks" to hormone treatment.
Graham Linehan's discussion with friends about Maya Forstater's historic win.
Maya Forstater turns up approx 19th minute to give a quick hello. She understandably looked very happy.
-----
What revealing stories from these young women, now detransitioners. One admitted she tried to escape from a lot of unpleasant sexual harrassment while growing up via changing sex. What a shame her voice has permanently changed "thanks" to hormone treatment.
Last edited:
Maes17
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I think any normal person wouldn’t take any of the transgender stuff. Seeing a man disguised as a woman to compete leaves the door open for a whole slew of problems.
There’s only 2 genders.
I hope this whole extremist ideology takes a big hit
Red Sky at Morning
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JoChris
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Divide and conquer (so the powerful can gain the last bit of power they didn't yet have), victor/s claiming the minority victim status to victimise the silent majority, exterminate/ fire the ideologically "impure" individual.... too right LGBTQI+ isn't the only one!
To use a metaphor: thinking back to Aussie bushfires 2019-2020, all the current woke battles are like multiple different bushfires in separate areas getting dangerously close to merging into a mega-bushfire, trying to destroy the last remaining sections of Judeo-Christian belief systems and societies.
Prevention is the biggest primary weapon against bushfires e.g. backburning and clearing to create firebreak zones.
If first world countries had kept their socially conservative core beliefs strong, all the minority groups and current conflicts would be tiny in comparison to now. We got too complacent.
Red Sky at Morning
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I think that’s where we are now as well Jo. I posted this quote up on my profile as it seems the time for good people to show courage has come.
“You have no enemies, you say? Alas, my friend, the boast is poor. He who has mingled in the fray of duty that the brave endure, must have made foes. If you have none, small is the work that you have done. You’ve hit no traitor on the hip. You’ve dashed no cup from perjured lip. You’ve never turned the wrong to right. You’ve been a coward in the fight.”
Charles Mackay
kerrichinchilla
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The problem is not all countries are like England. So far this year Canada has imprisoned a man for refusing to transition his child and a woman in Scotland is facing a prison sentence for posting a picture of a ribbon on a fence, shes a known gender critical woman and the police have harassed her, threatening to get social services involved with her twins. Other countries are waking up like Germany and Japan who has banned self ID like England but unfortunately at the moment its fashionable to see England as a bad guy so the gender cult are using it as an excuse. Ive seen them refer to sex as colonial racism (because obviously black people didnt know how biology worked until the white man appeared. Which i feel is way more racist than anything really)
Also we have the men who are competing in womens sports in the olympics
JoChris
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Woke Temple is a great semi-parody account.
Here is the whole series of tweets. https://threader.app/thread/1393917900264820737
JoChris
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Opinion piece from a bisexual Australian journalist:
www.abc.net.au
..But just a week later, I discovered some of the results of the Australia Talks survey. One of the relationship category questions asked 60,000 participants in March 2021 the following question:
"Assuming you were not already in a relationship, how open would you be to romantic involvement with the following … Someone who is bisexual?"
Almost half of respondents (44 per cent) stated that they are not at all open to dating someone who is bisexual. A further 15 per cent expressed reluctance, saying that they were slightly open to dating someone bisexual.
Truthfully, this shocked me.
Many of us in the LGBTQIA+ community are aware that discrimination and stigma against bi people (and all members of the community, of course) exists. Without having the resources — or inclination — to reach out to every person individually, we can't be entirely certain of why each person who chose 'not at all open' answered the way they did.
What we do know, however, is that the gap between 'not at all and 'very open' is widening: there's been an increase in people swiping NOPE on bisexuals since the last Australia Talks survey. Interestingly, fewer people sit on the fence with this, reminding me of the historic sentiment that we have to pick a side.....
'It shocked me': Australians still have a huge stigma against this community
Education, conversations and celebrating young people are just some of the ways we can combat stigma against the bi community, writes Deirdre Fidge.
www.abc.net.au
..But just a week later, I discovered some of the results of the Australia Talks survey. One of the relationship category questions asked 60,000 participants in March 2021 the following question:
"Assuming you were not already in a relationship, how open would you be to romantic involvement with the following … Someone who is bisexual?"
Almost half of respondents (44 per cent) stated that they are not at all open to dating someone who is bisexual. A further 15 per cent expressed reluctance, saying that they were slightly open to dating someone bisexual.
Truthfully, this shocked me.
Many of us in the LGBTQIA+ community are aware that discrimination and stigma against bi people (and all members of the community, of course) exists. Without having the resources — or inclination — to reach out to every person individually, we can't be entirely certain of why each person who chose 'not at all open' answered the way they did.
What we do know, however, is that the gap between 'not at all and 'very open' is widening: there's been an increase in people swiping NOPE on bisexuals since the last Australia Talks survey. Interestingly, fewer people sit on the fence with this, reminding me of the historic sentiment that we have to pick a side.....
kerrichinchilla
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8 year old boy dressed up as drag queen called lactacia. When people told me gay rights was a gateway to paedophilia i laughed
The Agrarian
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Six months ago I didn't even know what TERF meant. Just saying, now is the time for actual truth-telling women to lean on the traditional men who will back them up.
Hard saying, I know, but the support is there. Let us draw the line for you.
Hard saying, I know, but the support is there. Let us draw the line for you.
kerrichinchilla
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the issue is women have a double edged sword to contend with. Some traditional men are just traditional sexists, they want breeding, cleaning women. As the saying goes the conservative man sees women as private property, while the liberal man sees women as public property.
kerrichinchilla
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I disagree, i firmly believe the trans epidemic is a symptom of the patriarchy. Its still about sexualising, controlling and demeaning women but in a new shiny veneer.
The Agrarian
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I can only speak for my own regional subculture here .The rural "good ol' boy" chivalry of the southern U.S may look feudal... but 99% of my neighbors would jump the shit out of a tranny who threatened a woman. Jus sayin.
Oceanic
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I just can't believe someone either born with a vagina or a penis is suddenly getting a mental attack over what gender they are. Your private parts tell you the answer. Why are you freaking out? And some people even go as far as to get their own private parts removed. If that isn't crazy, I don't know what is. I rather face my phobias than have to deal with a transgender person, respectfully.