@Red Sky at Morning like ive said...christianity is about the complete death of the flesh and hence zero passion...so if you're enjoying music, even wholesome music, not to say you're evil or wrong, but it means your carnal nature and the passion that drives it...are very much alive.
Which pretty much means you arent born again and one with Christ in heart and spirit.
I think God created pleasure, and that the good pleasures of this life are a foretaste of the eternal joy God intends for us.
There is certainly a history of Christian asceticism but, to use the analogy of food and drink, food is good, flavours are incredible but gluttony and drunkenness are not God’s will.
Some people who can’t handle food require a gastric bypass. Some people who can’t drink without craving drunkenness are best not touching alcohol. Those who can’t look at a pretty girl without lusting after her may do well to avoid temptation.
Try a bit of Paul…
1 Corinthians 6:12-20 KJV
“All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.”
I think God created pleasure, and that the good pleasures of this life are a foretaste of the eternal joy God intends for us.
There is certainly a history of Christian asceticism but, to use the analogy of food and drink, food is good, flavours are incredible but gluttony and drunkenness are not God’s will.
Some people who can’t handle food require a gastric bypass. Some people who can’t drink without craving drunkenness are best not touching alcohol. Those who can’t look at a pretty girl without lusting after her may do well to avoid temptation.
Try a bit of Paul…
1 Corinthians 6:12-20 KJV
“All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.”
It (the human nature) will be there with us for as long as the flesh (body) keeps on living and breathing, so we are stuck with it, at least for the length of our human lifetime.
New King James Version
Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
However, we have to "crucify" the flesh until it is "dead", by denying it to have the control, that it previously had over us (and that was keeping us in bondage). Then once the "self" is "dead" (but the body is still alive, healthy and breathing) we have to control it, keeping it under subjection (and on a very short leash).
We are then no longer under it's control and become "resurrected" while still here, inside of the "dead" self, keeping it under subjection (maintaining the control) from here on and out:
New King James Version
1 Corinthians 9:27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
It (the human nature) will be there with us for as long as the flesh (body) keeps on living and breathing, so we are stuck with it, at least for the length of our human lifetime.
New King James Version
Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
However, we have to "crucify" the flesh until it is "dead", by denying it to have the control, that it previously had over us (and that was keeping us in bondage). Then once the "self" is "dead" (but the body is still alive, healthy and breathing) we have to control it, keeping it under subjection (and on a very short leash).
We are then no longer under it's control and become "resurrected" while still here, inside of the "dead" self, keeping it under subjection (maintaining the control) from here on and out:
New King James Version
1 Corinthians 9:27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
I think God created pleasure, and that the good pleasures of this life are a foretaste of the eternal joy God intends for us.
There is certainly a history of Christian asceticism but, to use the analogy of food and drink, food is good, flavours are incredible but gluttony and drunkenness are not God’s will.
Some people who can’t handle food require a gastric bypass. Some people who can’t drink without craving drunkenness are best not touching alcohol. Those who can’t look at a pretty girl without lusting after her may do well to avoid temptation.
Try a bit of Paul…
1 Corinthians 6:12-20 KJV
“All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.”
nice story...but pleasure comes from dopamine, dopamine is a component of the limbic brain which ultimately connects with our carnal nature
so yeh, you didnt die in christ, you just imagined you did.
end of the day, muslims arent kidding themselves about their level, christians are. the very first thing i was told by a christian missionary was this..
"you need Jesus because otherwise you will remain under the nature of sin"
at that time i didnt know any better, so when he said i was born in sin, iw as like 'every child is innocent'
being born in sin does not refer to the accountability of sin but the nature of sin coming from our limbic brain.
as for what Paul meant, Paul didnt claim to have any natural inclination / taste for food. He ate because it was necessary to feed and survive, just as monastics still eat. christians used to fast for days on end.
remember Jesus said the least of christians would be greater than Jonah...the Quran gives us the story of the 7 sleepers. Prophet Mohammad gave us the example of St George. So clearly there's a massive gulf between what christianity is supposed to be vs what you guys are.
im not judging you by my standards. the way i see it we're all just human and flawed. i listen to music, id ont give a shit.
telling me it's haraam is meaningless when we live in perpetual darkness despite posessing some belief and faith (iman). that iman is like a seed planted in the deepest recesses of the earth. Even a glimmer of light will give it life...
A long way away from muslims and christians who were in the light.
nice story...but pleasure comes from dopamine, dopamine is a component of the limbic brain which ultimately connects with our carnal nature
so yeh, you didnt die in christ, you just imagined you did.
I wonder - when God created Adam, do you think He created him with the capacity for pleasure and joy, or would he have been a monastic type being?
Do you experience peace with God as your Father or do you constantly feel “not good enough” for Allah? I’m not trying to be clever or score points btw.
I don't see how music can be forbidden, unless the act of someone talking, or listening to someone talking, could also be forbidden..
Both are sounds.
If it was forbidden, then it would have said so in The Law.
So I do not believe music is forbidden.
Some may choose not to listen to music, or to stop listening to music at a certain point in time.
I believe it's up to us, to ask for and use discernment, whether listening to a particular type of sound (whether it be of talking, or of music) is beneficial or of some value, or if it is harmful. What is harmful should be avoided, for one's own benefit.
Sura
7:33. Say: "The things that my Lord hath indeed forbidden are: shameful deeds, whether open or secret; sins and trespasses against truth or reason; assigning of partners to "I AM", for which He hath given no authority; and saying things about "I AM" of which ye have no knowledge."
Sura
16:116. But say not - for any false thing that your tongues may put forth,- "This is lawful, and this is forbidden," so as to ascribe false things to "I AM". For those who ascribe false things to "I AM", will never prosper.
As far as I know, music is not mentioned in the Quran:
"The question of whether music is permitted or forbidden in Islam is a matter of debate among scholars.[11]The Qur'an does not specifically refer to music itself. Some scholars, however, have interpreted the phrase "idle talk", which is discouraged, as including music.[11]"
So it seems to be based on scholars who interpret the phrase "idle talk" to include music (and from hadith). Hadith however, is not the Quran. It's therefore not Scripture.
I believe it's up to us, to ask for and use discernment, whether listening to a particular type of sound (whether it be of talking, or of music) is beneficial or of some value, or if it is harmful. What is harmful should be avoided, for one's own benefit.
I think discernment is far wiser than prohibition. Some music is a phenomenal blessing and is the antithesis of the stuff pumped out by the mainstream music industry.
Its just an example, you can find alot of songs online being played backwards. Thing is, if the message being sent is good, why is their a need to hide it?
Back masking became big in the 70's, mainly pushed by Alister Crowley, where he preached to do everything backwards, Speak, write, ect. I imagine you know this dude, he's was a pretty evil guy.
Interestingly enough he was (is) very influential amongst alot of bands. Famous bands like the Beetles, Ozzy Osborne, ect. Today back masking is pretty much put into everything. Its very easy to play a song backwards. Go find your favorite and see whats hidden in it.
If i understand correctly (the part i've bolded), you mean recorded music, produced by the music industry?
But what i was asking was, would singing a children's song, in person, produce a similar effect to the listener simply because of the choice of words and the timing or spacing between them?
satan himself introduced musical instruments to mankind and this was literally when fornication began. You have to go way back, we're talking about the sons of Adam when this event occurred.
Gen 4 17And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. 18And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech. 19And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. 20And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle. 21And his brother's name wasJubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
We attended for some time a church which preached about this topic. But it seemed contradictory that there was a literal organ used during the hymns, so i didn't take it as an actual prohibition.
However, as for as i'm concerned, i rarely if ever listen to music besides hymns. i just see it as a conscience issue, not a legalistic prohibition.
Just look at what music does today. Sets your mood, can make you happy, sad, suicidal, depressed. Not common knowledge that soldiers in the Afghan war would play heavy metal loudly when they went around slaughtering women and children. Why is this? Because music ha an affect on the mind.
If i understand correctly (the part i've bolded), you mean recorded music, produced by the music industry?
But what i was asking was, would singing a children's song, in person, produce a similar effect to the listener simply because of the choice of words and the timing or spacing between them?
I would say no. I'd think they would need to add the 2nd set of lyrics digitally. As I've never been involved in such things i can only speculate.
However i do know talking backwards is a thing and words are chosen specifically for this purpose due to the effect they have.
Consider "god" and "dog". Depending on how its read, forward or backwards, different meanings are attained. But textually, its the same word.
. .. so your theory is possible and God knows best.
We attended for some time a church which preached about this topic. But it seemed contradictory that there was a literal organ used during the hymns, so i didn't take it as an actual prohibition.
However, as for as i'm concerned, i rarely if ever listen to music besides hymns. i just see it as a conscience issue, not a legalistic prohibition.
I know the last prophet (saw) said.. "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk (for men), the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful." --- Bukhari 5590
With this we know music was frowned on 1400 years ago at least.
I am the same way as you to be honest. I don't need music but i do play a nasheed from time to time. Nasheeds are basically hymns. I just try to find instrument free ones, like this example.
If you bother playing it the "music" is Arabic. Let me know if you'd like a translation.
I had never really joined the dots between the early “free love” culture of the 60s to feminism and through to the new LGBTQ+ hegemony we face today. It would appear the spirit of Ishtar is alive and well in the West…
From the book
Seismic Night
It would all come to a head in 1969, on a summer night on the streets of New York City—in an explosion. It concerned a bar called the Stonewall Inn. It would lead into days of rage and violence and would trigger a new movement and a cultural transformation. It was there in the streets of New York City that the goddess would make her stand and bring what had been hidden in the shadows into the spotlight of American culture, then Western culture, and finally the world. Her agenda was ultimately to take a Christian civilization, alter its values, its perception of marriage, gender, and sexuality, until it had been transformed into a pagan civilization.
As with the other transformations, it would have to be carried out step by step, first by mentioning the unmentionable, then by making the shocking familiar. From there the culture would be moved to toleration, then acceptance. That which was once unmentionable would become established, celebrated, championed, and then enforced. As she had introduced the transformation on the streets of New York, she would then introduce it into media, film, theater, television, music, politics, law, the educational system, children’s cartoons, cereal boxes, everywhere. It would continue its saturation until there was hardly a facet of modern culture that had not been touched or altered by it. Laws would be overturned, and what was formerly illegal would now be celebrated. The overturning of something so basic to civilization as the male-female paradigm and norm would prove especially potent in the transformation of American and Western culture.
Today's Show: GALLI: ANCIENT TRANS CULT MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE - 7.20.2023
Chris discusses a recent debate where a college student challenged a conservative speaker on the issue of transgenderism. To defend her position, she mentioned the "Galli" cults from the ancient world. We review how the Galli were mentioned in the Bible during the time of King Josiah (2 Kings 23:7), whose houses by the temple were removed during his dramatic reform of ancient Israel. Also discussed is the book, "Letter to the American Church" by Eric Metaxas, where the author warns the Christian community that conditions in America are dangerously similar to those in Nazi Germany.
Mass media is the most powerful tool used by the ruling class to manipulate the masses. It shapes and molds opinions and attitudes and defines what is normal and acceptable. This article looks at the workings of mass media through the theories of its major thinkers, its power structure and the...
vigilantcitizen.com
Very interesting information, but what I couldn’t reconcile was the fact that the breadth and force of the changes in society as promoted through numerous channels did not appear to be the work of humans alone.
A verse from the Bible kept coming back to me:
Ephesians 6:12 - King James Version
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
That had been playing over in my mind for a few years, and a week ago I decided to listen to the book “The Return of the gods” by Jonathan Cahn. I would venture to say that if someone truly wanted to understand “what’s going on”, this might be a great place to start.
Is it possible that behind what is taking place in America and the world lies a mystery that goes back to the gods of the ancient world…and that they now have returned?
The Return of the Gods is the most explosive book Jonathan Cahn has ever written. It is so explosive and so revealing that no description here could do it justice. Jonathan Cahn is known for revealing the stunning mysteries, many from ancient times, that lie behind and are playing out in the events of our times. But with The Return of the Gods, Cahn takes this to an entirely new level and dimension.
The Return of the Gods, Cahn takes the reader on a journey from an ancient parable, the ancient inscriptions in Sumer, Assyria, and Babylonia that become the puzzle pieces behind what is taking place in our world to this day, specifically in America.
Is it possible that what we in the modern world take as nothing more than ancient mythology could actually possess a reality beyond our fathoming?
Who is the Possessor? The Enchanter? The Destroyer? And the Sorceress?
Could a sign that has appeared all over America and the world be linked to the gods of Mesopotamia? And if so, what does it actually mean?
Could the gods have returned to New York City and an ancient mythology played out on the streets in real time?
Is it possible that the gods lie behind everything from what appears on our computer monitors, our televisions and movie screens; to the lessons given in our classrooms; to the breakdown of the family; to wokism; to the occult; to our addictions; to the Supreme Court; to cancel culture; to children’s cartoons; to every force and factor that has transformed the parameters of gender; to that which appears in our stores, on our T-shirts, and on our coffee mugs—to that which is, at this very moment, transforming America and much of the world? Is it possible that behind all these things are ancient mysteries that go back to the Middle East and ancient Mesopotamia? This and so much more, most of which we can’t even reveal in this description, will be uncovered.”
I’m posting this up because the above writer seems to have hit the nail on the head when it comes to understanding the spiritual forces at work in the world, especially in the post-Christian west.
