Comparison of JAHtruth's "the way home or face the fire" to the bible [part 4, special rainbow edition]

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

I am by no means agreeing w jahtruth or doing apologetics for them, but is it ok if i share some thoughts? If it's not please let me know and i won't derail the thread.

Then why God create Adam made with a foreskin, if having one was going to be way too tempting for men?

As Adam was created before the fall, is it possible that before the fall there was no concept of s*xual temptation? After all, before the fall they were naked and not ashamed, Gen2:25.

6:10 The circumcising would help to achieve this, by making the sex-organ less sensitive, to try to reduce their sex-drive, and, hopefully, help to push them towards a better understanding of spiritual love.

That's AJH's opinion only - frankly there he sounds quite prudish and inhibited.

While yes, the Bible does not state this, variations of this idea are not unique to jah.

I have read elsewhere, a long time ago, that circumcision severs a very sensitive part. The source i read this from was a pro-female cult of some kind, and was claiming that intact men are better able to "bond" with the women because of it, leading to them being more easily controlled by women, a sort of inversiom of patriachal society.

There is a strong undercurrent of pagan feminism in the anti-circumcision movement today, as i learned when i was pregnant with a son.

What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah? Got questions

..... What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah? According to Genesis 19, the sin involved homosexuality. The very name of that ancient city has given us the term sodomy, in the sense of “copulation between two men, whether consensual or forced.” Clearly, homosexuality was part of why God destroyed the two cities. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to perform homosexual acts on what they thought were two men.

While undoubtedly homosexual activities were involved, wouldn't ezekiel 16 reference the fact that the sin of sodom relates to the sort of living conditions that lead to this: pride, fullness of bread, idleness. Much of what we see in our western society today. Meanwhile 3rd world countries that take a strong stance against homosexuality have a lower standard of living. Would not be a far leap to say that these conditions breed sin.

Ezekiel 16:49-50

49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

:21 Lot’s wife looked back, and, because the eyes are the window of the soul (Luke 11:34), the blast “Fire” entered through her eyes, destroying her soul and turning her into a pillar of salt.

No, she died because she disobeyed the angels' directions. There is nothing to suggest what AJH said.

Acoording to a sermon i watched, Lot's wife looked back towards sodom (both a literal city and a symbol of "the world") and died because she was choosing "the world" over being saved. A more appropriate verse than for jah to reference would have been "remember Lot's wife Lk17:32 in the context of the end times.

 

[JoChris]

I am by no means agreeing w jahtruth or doing apologetics for them, but is it ok if i share some thoughts? If it's not please let me know and i won't derail the thread.

Please share thoughts however you (and any other readers) see fit. [All I ask is for people to not hijack the thread for their own agenda.]
Only the bible is infallible, I certainly am human and may misread/ overlook things that are said in TWHOFTF.

As Adam was created before the fall, is it possible that before the fall there was no concept of s*xual temptation? After all, before the fall they were naked and not ashamed, Gen2:25.

That is what I thought as well - if there was sexual intimacy already between Adam and Eve before the fall, then it would not have been sinful for Adam to have had sex with Eve uncircumcised.

While yes, the Bible does not state this, variations of this idea are not unique to jah.

I have read elsewhere, a long time ago, that circumcision severs a very sensitive part. The source i read this from was a pro-female cult of some kind, and was claiming that intact men are better able to "bond" with the women because of it, leading to them being more easily controlled by women, a sort of inversiom of patriachal society.

There is a strong undercurrent of pagan feminism in the anti-circumcision movement today, as i learned when i was pregnant with a son.

I remember a long time ago seeing a documentary about men who suing their parents for having had them circumcised when they were babies, because they claimed they were less sensitive as a result.
Because of that I find it easy to believe that pagan women approve of their men being uncircumcised. Maybe they believe they burn with sexual desire more?

While undoubtedly homosexual activities were involved, wouldn't ezekiel 16 reference the fact that the sin of sodom relates to the sort of living conditions that lead to this: pride, fullness of bread, idleness. Much of what we see in our western society today. Meanwhile 3rd world countries that take a strong stance against homosexuality have a lower standard of living. Would not be a far leap to say that these conditions breed sin.

Ezekiel 16:49-50

49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

I have heard of pro-gay "Christian" preachers use the argument that Sodom was destroyed because of a lack of hospitality, a lack of love for their neighbour as well.
It shouldn't be an either/ or situation. Both issues should be addressed.
Third world nations do suffer a great deal; the curse towards the 3rd and 4th generation may be being applied by God unfortunately. There are some fine Christians there, but the overall culture often has terrible issues for many reasons as well.

First world nations will reap what has been sowed as well - it will present in different ways perhaps e.g. environmental issues differ because of climates - but it will happen.

Acoording to a sermon i watched, Lot's wife looked back towards sodom (both a literal city and a symbol of "the world") and died because she was choosing "the world" over being saved. A more appropriate verse than for jah to reference would have been "remember Lot's wife Lk17:32 in the context of the end times.

EXACTLY! The poor choice of bible references has been astounding at times!
Maybe the "spirit" guiding AJH's mind mustn't have wanted the relevant bible verse to have been searched for....

Lot's wife loved money more than God.
Anthony John Hill puts the world before God. That verse might have pricked his conscience.

A man who had genuine faith in God would not be seeking to get an obscene amount of money for his secondhand watch* or for King Charles III to hand over his throne.


* https://thekingsrolexseadweller.com/


Note the name is A.J.Hill, not J.A.Hill like he pretends.

 

[JoChris]

6:31 How can anyone expect to find love, when they are looking in all the wrong places? Look up, not down. How can you expect to see what is above you, when you are always looking downwards? Love is spiritual, and sex is animal. When the soul controls the animal; uses it for the benefit of another in true love, and giving instead of taking; the act of making love, becomes the nearest thing to “Heaven on Earth”.

At least it sounds like TWHOFTF is supportive of sex within marriage.
However there isn't anything in the bible to suggest God views sex as "animal".

6:32 The loving of two spirits, both in control of their animal bodies, and being totally unselfish; wanting only to give pleasure and love to their partner; asking nothing in return; uniting both bodies and souls (as much as is possible within human-limitations), is the most heavenly experience possible on Earth, and is “Out of this world”.

Within marriage sex is definitely supported by God!
It is our sinful human nature's legalism that sometimes makes sex "dirty".
Sexual activity OUTSIDE of a marriage (of one man and one woman to each other) is called sinful, not animal.

What does the bible say about sex - Got questions

Proverbs 5:16 Let thy fountains be dispersed abroad, and rivers of waters in the streets.
17 Let them be only thine own, and not strangers' with thee.
18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.
19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.

A whole book written by King Solomon certainly gives a surprisingly positive view of intimacy between a man and his wife.
Song of Songs

Anthony John Hill's PERversion of the bible includes The Gospel of Thomas.
As well as the Gospel of Thomas, many false Gnostic gospels have an overall negative viewpoint on women and sexuality.

Gender and gnosis: Making Mary male, making Jesus female

....Logion 114, the final item of the Gospel of Thomas, is one of its most controversial sayings. It reads as follows: Simon Peter said to them, “Mary should leave us, for females are not worthy of life.” Jesus said, “Look, I shall guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter heaven’s kingdom.” [p.3]...

...The Gnostic literature repeatedly associates the female with the earthly and corruptible, and the male with the spiritual and incorruptible. 34,35 Female sexuality in particular is a target; for instance, the Book of Thomas the Contender has Jesus say “Woe to you who love intimacy with womankind and polluted intercourse with them.”36 Inseparable from this, of course, is female fertility, whose negative potential is often emphasised. In the Second Discourse of the Great Seth, Jesus says “And do not become female, lest you give birth to evil and its brothers: jealousy and division, anger and wrath, fear and a divided heart, and empty, non-existent desire.”37 An instruction in the Dialogue of the Saviour even commands us to “Destroy the works of womanhood.”38 In contrast, maleness was repeatedly identified with spirit, truth and the divine.39 The mindset of the ancient world was patriarchal to the point of misogyny. [p.3-4]

 

[JoChris]

6:33 Gomorrah was destroyed at the same time as Sodom, with a weapon so sophisticated, that it is beyond human-comprehension, and is nothing like silly, crude, human weapons, including nuclear weapons. The weapons on Earth are crude, children’s toys, that go “BANG!”, and can kill humananimals.

The childish tone that "the way home or face the fire" has at times shouldn't surprise me any more, but the following "verse" is extremely bad. Phrases like "go bang" belong on kids' shows like Sesame Street.
The bible doesn't say that God used a weapon.

Genesis 19:24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.

---
6:34 The ability to destroy a planet (nuclear-weapons) is insignificant, compared to the power of “The Force”.

Star Wars is not in the Bible.

6:35 God does not need crude, nuclear-weapons. If He just THINKS it, everyone is dead. Who do you think decides, when a person’s body will die, and then makes it happen?
That is true.
Psalm 39
4 Lord, make me to know mine end, and the measure of my days, what it is: that I may know how frail I am.
5 Behold, thou hast made my days as an handbreadth; and mine age is as nothing before thee: verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity. Selah.

Psalm 139
15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

---
6:36 You need not be terrified, by nuclear-weapons, because they can not kill your soul, which is the REAL you. Once you have 100% faith, in God, you will fear nothing and no-one. “Do NOT be afraid of those who can kill your body; fear only those who can kill your body and soul (the real you), with The FIRE” (Matt. 10:28).

The change is subtle but deliberate. The phrase "the real you" is certainly not in the bible.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

---
In other words, do not fear humans, or human-death, or the devil: fear only that you may be found unworthy on the Last-Day, and that your soul will be killed, in “The Fire”, by God and the Lamb (Prince Michael/Christ).

This is the first time that AJH actually uses the Phrase "Prince Michael" in TWHOFTF.
He has finally taken off the mask.

 

[JoChris]

This section doesn't need much comment, except that people should remember it is allegedly a spiritual book, focused on saving us from "facing the fire".
In the bible sex/ human relationships is not one of the main topics at all, despite it is being an important part of human relationships. e.g. 1 Corinthians chapter 7.
The icing on the cake isn't the cake itself.

6:37 God could not make sex unlawful (only fornication), because of the need for humanreproduction, and because He wanted a man and woman to become one, and help each other, to create a stable, loving relationship, and family-unit, into which children could be born. The children could then grow-up in love-filled and harmonious surroundings, with a balanced outlook on life, having a solid-foundation, on which to build, in their adult-life. Having been taught already, the values of love (God), instead of the values of this world (mammon), by their parents’ example, in both words and deeds, they could then go out into the world, with a balanced mentality, and teach their own children, from their own experience, and perpetuate the process.

6:38 Knowing that promiscuity would lead to all kinds of problems, and animal, instead of spiritual values, God destroyed Gomorrah, and left the story of its destruction, as a deterrent to future generations. He also left a legacy, to remind the world, to be faithful and to keep His Laws. The legacy, to keep people on the right path, was called Gonorrhea (Gomorreah).

AJH's imagination changed it from N to M.
Gonorrhea - Wikipedia
Gonorrhoea or gonorrhea, colloquially known as the clap, is a sexually transmitted infection (STI) caused by the bacterium Neisseria gonorrhoeae.

6:39 Promiscuity became more widespread, and so did gonorrhea, and God has sent progressively, stronger warnings, to try to keep people on the straight-and-narrow path:- syphilis; non-specific urethritis; Vietnam Rose and now HERPES.

6:40 He cannot blast the promiscuous now, without hurting innocent people, and, in any case, the Last-Day is so close now, that He does not need to bother. HERPES is now turning many people away from promiscuity, as it was intended to do, and AIDS, even more so. Doctors and pharmacists will try to find cures, that will then help people to keep-on being promiscuous, thereby helping Satan, instead of God.

STIs have definitely NOT stopped people from having sex outside of marriage.
In the 21st century people don't have the fear of AIDS like we did in the 80s any more.

 

[JoChris]

This is the very last "verse" of the chapter, but it deserved a separate entry.

6:41 The “Mound of Venus”, leading to the sacred temple of love, which must not be desecrated, and/or defiled, by strangers.

If you do a search for the word "venus" in the KJV bible, it does not exist. However, Venus was a name ancient peoples used for the Morning Star. Jesus, Venus and the Morning Star.

It was also the name given for a Roman goddess. Venus - World History encyclopedia

In Roman mythology, Venus was the goddess of love, sex, beauty, and fertility. She was the Roman counterpart to the Greek goddess Aphrodite. However, Roman Venus had many abilities beyond the Greek Aphrodite; she was a goddess of victory, fertility, and even prostitution.

The mound of Venus definitely was NOT mentioned anywhere in the bible.

Why doesn't AJH just clearly state what it is? [Of course he wouldn't do that - what might people think?!]

Vulva - Wikipedia
The vulva (plural: vulvas or vulvae; derived from Latin for wrapper or covering) consists of the external female sex organs. The vulva includes the mons pubis (or mons veneris), labia majora, labia minora, clitoris, vestibular bulbs, vulval vestibule, urinary meatus, the vaginal opening, hymen, and Bartholin's and Skene's vestibular glands.

Where in the bible are women's sexual organs described as a temple of love?!!!! AJH can't have it both ways.

Venereal diseases — sent by Venus.
That is an absolutely ridiculous statement for a man who claims to believe in both the bible and quran.
God is not Venus. She might be one of a pagan's goddesses might be though.

Please remember that this is not an informal recorded conversation between several people.
It is not a recorded speech where a tongue-tied speaker made an error and then self-corrected immediately afterwards.

It is an alleged inspired book from the self-declared Jesus "reborn in a human body", and it is supposed to be believed and obeyed 100% by JAHtruthers.

----
This is the conclusion (it has a Yin Yang diagram, with the female in pink and male in blue).

OPEN YOUR EYES!

100% FEMALE = 1/2 100% LADY, perfect wife and mum.
MALE = 1/2 GENTLEMAN, perfect husband and dad.

[makes] The Perfect One [diagram].

TRUTH and HONOUR in thought, word and deed. Death (human), before dishonour of the soul.

----

The short chapter was even more tiresome to get through than the previous long ones, and I find it perfectly understandable why few readers' comments are being made any more. How are people supposed to respond to this man's ramblings, with TWHOFTF hopscotching from point to point all the time?

The sentences which are accidentally correct are the ones which are in agreement with the bible.... so why use "the way home or face the fire" instead of the actual bible? Why use the compost heap if you can get a healthy meal?

I was somewhat surprised that the forum's JAHtruth evangelists made no effort to defend the Rainbow edition chapter, even though for once AJH was sometimes agreeing with the bible. Your lack of confidence in your ability to defend your religion off-script has been noted @A Freeman.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I get the feeling that as a younger man, Mr Hill wasn’t especially popular with women and has a bit of a love / hate relationship with the opposite sex.

Once you notice the very human character of the pronouncements, you can’t “un-see” them.

 

[JoChris]

I get the feeling that as a younger man, Mr Hill wasn’t especially popular with women and has a bit of a love / hate relationship with the opposite sex.

Once you notice the very human character of the pronouncements, you can’t “un-see” them.

Of course only people who knew Anthony John Hill all his life would be able to say if your theory is correct.
I wouldn't be surprised if he did have "women issues" of some variety.

"The way home or face the fire" is not a Holy Book at all. It is very vexing to read such a phony 3 dollar bill variety, while knowing that incredibly some people still fell for it.
I now believe it is a combination of Anthony John Hill's opinions (but reworded "religiously") and what he wrote down while automatic writing.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

This section doesn't need much comment, except that people should remember it is allegedly a spiritual book, focused on saving us from "facing the fire".
In the bible sex/ human relationships is not one of the main topics at all, despite it is being an important part of human relationships. e.g. 1 Corinthians chapter 7.
The icing on the cake isn't the cake itself.

6:37 God could not make sex unlawful (only fornication), because of the need for humanreproduction, and because He wanted a man and woman to become one, and help each other, to create a stable, loving relationship, and family-unit, into which children could be born. The children could then grow-up in love-filled and harmonious surroundings, with a balanced outlook on life, having a solid-foundation, on which to build, in their adult-life. Having been taught already, the values of love (God), instead of the values of this world (mammon), by their parents’ example, in both words and deeds, they could then go out into the world, with a balanced mentality, and teach their own children, from their own experience, and perpetuate the process.

Once again i hesitate to say this because i dont want it to be misundestood as apologetics for jah truth, but i have some thoughts about the connection of being saved from "the fire" and illicit sex...

As i have stated previously, i do not believe the Bible says we are under works based salvation. So no, i am not saying that engaging in fornication is in itself what sends people to the fire.

For the sake of what i am saying, i am interpreting "facing the fire" as rejecting salvation through Jesus Christ. I am aware that is not jahtruths's definition.

Anyway, for a couple of years now, it has become one of my interests to figure out the throught process in people who were raised with a proper Christian upbringing but have rejected Christianity, often becoming atheists. I often wonder what went wrong. It is not simply a matter of idle curiosity, but i would like to know so my husband and i can give our children the best fighting chance against modern culture.

Time and time again, the common denominator seems to be that these people wanted to engage in sexual sin. Most accounts i've read and videos i've watched involve either inappropriate sexual attraction, and/or high sex drives and inability to get it under control. Faced with a choice between following Christ in the way their parents taught them* and giving into their sinful urges unrepentantly and unapologetically, those that chose to walk away from Christianity chose the latter.

These people reject Christ, and the reason often given is that they believe God rejects them (because of the condemnation of fornication or same sex attraction). Some see God as a "bully" who purposely made them this way only to punish them.

*Often times these parents appear to either have had only a superficial understanding of the Bible, or for whatever reason were unable to teach their children concepts effectively, such as forgiveness and repentance, and grace through faith.

In short, im saying that the topic of sex is somewhat relevant when it comes to not "facing the fire" in today's day and age, althought not in the way jah truth claims.

How are people supposed to respond to this man's ramblings, with TWHOFTF hopscotching from point to point all the time?

The way the topics jump around is very reminiscent of someone under the influence...

I now believe it is a combination of Anthony John Hill's opinions (but reworded "religiously") and what he wrote down while automatic writing

Exactly.

 

[Lyfe]

I think it comes down to whether or not someone is truly born again. There are allot of people who were raised in the church, but never truly gave their life to Christ or believed in their heart. If someone's heart has been regenerated and if they have been adopted as a son or daughter then that means they will be convicted and grieved over fornication. That and if they continue without repentance God will visit and chasten them.

If someone lives in habitual fornication and they refuse to see wrong in it then they may have never been regenerated or belonged to God to begin with.

 

[JoChris]

Once again i hesitate to say this because i dont want it to be misundestood as apologetics for jah truth, but i have some thoughts about the connection of being saved from "the fire" and illicit sex...

Please don't think that I am anti-comments or feedback at all. I want people to bounce their thoughts off me:
As far as I know I am doing the first Christian critique of "The way home or face the fire". I am doing a first draft as I go; I would love people who are reading/ have read TWHOFTF to bounce their thoughts off me as well!!!!

The reason is that I am relatively strict RE staying on topic is that I have been on the forum over the years.
In the past especially it became extremely bad with how non-Christians did everything to keep Christians off topic that offended them personally/ contradicted their own religious beliefs.

As i have stated previously, i do not believe the Bible says we are under works based salvation. So no, i am not saying that engaging in fornication is in itself what sends people to the fire.

For the sake of what i am saying, i am interpreting "facing the fire" as rejecting salvation through Jesus Christ. I am aware that is not jahtruths's definition.

I agree. We are saved through FAITH in Christ.
That includes people who have done serious sins in the past, including all sins involving sex outside of marriage.

Anyway, for a couple of years now, it has become one of my interests to figure out the throught process in people who were raised with a proper Christian upbringing but have rejected Christianity, often becoming atheists. I often wonder what went wrong. It is not simply a matter of idle curiosity, but i would like to know so my husband and i can give our children the best fighting chance against modern culture.

Time and time again, the common denominator seems to be that these people wanted to engage in sexual sin. Most accounts i've read and videos i've watched involve either inappropriate sexual attraction, and/or high sex drives and inability to get it under control. Faced with a choice between following Christ in the way their parents taught them* and giving into their sinful urges unrepentantly and unapologetically, those that chose to walk away from Christianity chose the latter.

These people reject Christ, and the reason often given is that they believe God rejects them (because of the condemnation of fornication or same sex attraction). Some see God as a "bully" who purposely made them this way only to punish them.

*Often times these parents appear to either have had only a superficial understanding of the Bible, or for whatever reason were unable to teach their children concepts effectively, such as forgiveness and repentance, and grace through faith.

In short, im saying that the topic of sex is somewhat relevant when it comes to not "facing the fire" in today's day and age, althought not in the way jah truth claims.

That is a very important issue, I am glad you are thinking of your children's future.
In my church there have been a lot of young adults who left it in the past few years, and no-one can accuse their parents of doing their very best to bring them to faith in Jesus.

They were taught everything from the bible. Some were home-schooled. They did youth group and Sunday morning classes for teenagers.
Like you suggest sex and the general love of the world was too enticing for them.
Only God knows if they are severely backslidden or they were false converts only.

The way the topics jump around is very reminiscent of someone under the influence...

It gets so much worse further on. It made my mouth drop when I started looking at the later chapters the other day.
I really need other Christians to help me RE his endtime and conspiracy words later on in the ebook.

 

[JoChris]

I think it comes down to whether or not someone is truly born again. There are allot of people who were raised in the church, but never truly gave their life to Christ or believed in their heart. If someone's heart has been regenerated and if they have been adopted as a son or daughter then that means they will be convicted and grieved over fornication. That and if they continue without repentance God will visit and chasten them.

If someone lives in habitual fornication and they refuse to see wrong in it then they may have never been regenerated or belonged to God to begin with.

I agree with you 100%.
God tells us to keep sex for marriage because He is a good Father and knows what is best for us.
In my case unfortunately I was a wandering sheep and I paid the consequences for my disobedience.
It is difficult being married to a non-Christian spouse, even though he is a good man.