Who do Muslims really worship?

[TempestOfTempo]

You can quit with that now. The only "Muslims" who deny Muhammad married a six year old are Americans. Talk with any middle eastern Muslim and they admit it, in fact their defense is "that was the customs of the time". I've talked with an Imam from Turkey about the exact subject.

Muslim scholars from 800ad until day have no trouble talking about it, or the fact that Muhammad thought he was first possessed by a demon after his supposed encounter with " gabriel" in a cave. Your attempted apologetics prove how deceitful you are.

Well when you willfull choose to remain ignorant and incorrect, you can feel justified in making any accusation that you want because you dont have to do the actual research to find the truth or back up your claims.

The Muslims who deny Muhammed married Aisha before she was even 10 years old are scholars who have proven her age to have been in the 17-19 range and have done so by utilizing both hadeeth and western accepted chronological science. They have proven their contention by both Islamic and western standards.

The Muslims who promote the notion that Muhammed married Aisha when she was under 10 years of age refuse to address this, as we see in numerous threads in the VC forums, some specifically regarding the topic. Its easy to find Middle Eastern/European/African/Asian/etc. "born-and-bred" Muslims who admit it was the custom of the time. What they fail to admit is that the practice (along with many other forbidden acts now deemed "Islamic") was re-inserted after Muhammed's death. So its not surprising that you found "Muslims" and "Imams" who excuse/promote this behavior, some know what they are doing, other are ignorant...

But regardless of what you or the 6-9 brigade contend... none of you has refuted the proof that Aisha was 17-19 at the time of her marriage. Proof that satisfies both Islamic and western criteria on the matter.

 

[AspiringSoul]

it seems the xtians on here have chosen to believe what the system of mystery babylon has spread against islam.

1) 9/11, when it happened, ONLY THE MUSLIMS were saying 'jews did it, inside job, it's fake'.
Were we proven right or wrong? danish scientists found evidence of thermite in the twin tower wreckage..
the media claimed they found passports in the rubble lmfao.
i dont need to go into this in detail, it is obv that was an inside job.

2) oooh al qaeeda doe...
except muslims said bin laden was a cia agent and not a real mujahideen. The real mujahideen was Ahmad Shah Massoud and he just happened to be assasinated by al qaeeda 2 days before 9/11...hmm..very suspect.
Then bin laden was 'killed in pakistan', but there was no body, no proof. the yanks just said 'we buried him at sea'.

meanwhile israeli media/mossad and the army allc onfirmed that israel was allied with AL NUSRA FRONT...but did you clowns not know that al nusra IS AL QAEEDA?

then we have omar baghdadi, senator mccain's best pal in ayria. no beard, looked like nacho off Better call saul lmao. Backed by america, becomes head of 'isis'. He's apparently killed by the americans...
oh yeh 'buriedededrp at sea doe'

doesnt matter if you believe in God, Jesus or Cinderella, someday we will all be made to relive our life experience and we'll be judged on everything we did. Being this effing dumb will be held against you.
'you knew all that and still wanted to lie about them muslims?'

honestly, muslims have centuries of zero education to get over..but educated muslims in the west run rings around xtians every single day. there's no ego in this because i will always respe

Im trying to warn you that your sins outweigh your good. One sin is enough to be cast into hell. You are not good nor are your deeds relevant to a holy and perfect God. Your body, mind, soul, and spirit are utterly defiled and tainted. Your garments are soiled. Your heart has been corrupted and polluted with sin and nothing can change that but the salvation of God through Christ and the shedding of his blood and the holy spirit. If you dont have a covering for your sins and if they arent blotted out completely then you will have to pay for them. This is the God of the Old Testament. He is perfect and no sin shall stand before him. Nothing defiled can stand in his presence or before him. Thats why the high priest would fall over dead when he went into the holy of holies if there was even a speck of sin on him that wasnt atoned for. His motives were irrelevant he needed his sin taken away, completely. Thats why the covenant of the OT was enacted with the covering of blood. That is why the blood sacrifices were enacted. It was to show how costly sin was and to foreshadow the ultimate sacrifice for sin, Christ. Someone else always had to bare the penalty for sin through shedding of blood. If you are relying on your own deeds and motives to get you into heaven you are doomed. You will only stand guilty and defiled before God for he is holy, blameless, and perfect. I will leave it at that.

Muslims believe in Gods infinite Mercy as far as sin and all the rest go.
Really that makes Jesus N/A except tjat muslims accept him as their messiah. Plus the whole sin aspect of Jesus was for the jews. Thats the truth. "Sent only to the lost sheep of israel".
What is in the gospel is relative. Like if i walked around my family saying. "everyone must trust me" it doesnt mean im talking to the neighbours does it?

 

[AspiringSoul]

Wonder about the self righteousness of Muslims do they consider themselves righteous

A'isha, the wife of Allah's Apostle (ﷺ), reported that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to say:
Observe moderation (in doing deeds), and if you fail to observe it perfectly, try to do as much as you can do (to live up to this ideal of moderation) and be happy for none would be able to get into Paradise because of his deeds alone. They (the Companions of the Holy Prophet) said: Allah's Messenger, not even you? Thereupon he said: Not even I, but that Allah wraps me in His Mercy, and bear this in mind that the deed loved most by Allah is one which is done constantly even though it is small.

 

[Daze]

it seems the xtians on here have chosen to believe what the system of mystery babylon has spread against islam.

1) 9/11, when it happened, ONLY THE MUSLIMS were saying 'jews did it, inside job, it's fake'.
Were we proven right or wrong? danish scientists found evidence of thermite in the twin tower wreckage..
the media claimed they found passports in the rubble lmfao.
i dont need to go into this in detail, it is obv that was an inside job.

2) oooh al qaeeda doe...
except muslims said bin laden was a cia agent and not a real mujahideen. The real mujahideen was Ahmad Shah Massoud and he just happened to be assasinated by al qaeeda 2 days before 9/11...hmm..very suspect.
Then bin laden was 'killed in pakistan', but there was no body, no proof. the yanks just said 'we buried him at sea'.

meanwhile israeli media/mossad and the army allc onfirmed that israel was allied with AL NUSRA FRONT...but did you clowns not know that al nusra IS AL QAEEDA?

then we have omar baghdadi, senator mccain's best pal in ayria. no beard, looked like nacho off Better call saul lmao. Backed by america, becomes head of 'isis'. He's apparently killed by the americans...
oh yeh 'buriedededrp at sea doe'

doesnt matter if you believe in God, Jesus or Cinderella, someday we will all be made to relive our life experience and we'll be judged on everything we did. Being this effing dumb will be held against you.
'you knew all that and still wanted to lie about them muslims?'

honestly, muslims have centuries of zero education to get over..but educated muslims in the west run rings around xtians every single day. there's no ego in this because i will always respe

Muslims believe in Gods infinite Mercy as far as sin and all the rest go.
Really that makes Jesus N/A except tjat muslims accept him as their messiah. Plus the whole sin aspect of Jesus was for the jews. Thats the truth. "Sent only to the lost sheep of israel".
What is in the gospel is relative. Like if i walked around my family saying. "everyone must trust me" it doesnt mean im talking to the neighbours does it?

I think its largely bias that makes people say they believe in the official story to 9/11. From the dancing Israelis who were arrested while they were filming the attack (proving foreknowledge) to Netanyahu himself saying the death of 3000 Americans was very beneficial for Israel.

Truth is the 9/11 story has more holes then a pasta strainer. Only a clear moron, or someone with an agenda can claim the official story to be credible.

"Insert the video clip here with a CNN reporter saying.. "they found the passport blocks from the crash if you can believe that"
Video is 18 seconds but I'm sure there will still be people who can't be bothered.

 

[Bubbajay]

Well when you willfull choose to remain ignorant and incorrect, you can feel justified in making any accusation that you want because you dont have to do the actual research to find the truth or back up your claims.

The Muslims who deny Muhammed married Aisha before she was even 10 years old are scholars who have proven her age to have been in the 17-19 range and have done so by utilizing both hadeeth and western accepted chronological science. They have proven their contention by both Islamic and western standards.

The Muslims who promote the notion that Muhammed married Aisha when she was under 10 years of age refuse to address this, as we see in numerous threads in the VC forums, some specifically regarding the topic. Its easy to find Middle Eastern/European/African/Asian/etc. "born-and-bred" Muslims who admit it was the custom of the time. What they fail to admit is that the practice (along with many other forbidden acts now deemed "Islamic") was re-inserted after Muhammed's death. So its not surprising that you found "Muslims" and "Imams" who excuse/promote this behavior, some know what they are doing, other are ignorant...

But regardless of what you or the 6-9 brigade contend... none of you has refuted the proof that Aisha was 17-19 at the time of her marriage. Proof that satisfies both Islamic and western criteria on the matter.

Its much more likely that the 8th and 9th century historians were correct as those historians lived closer to the time period. I find it odd that your theory only came out after the real facts were spread throughout the English speaking world. All your theory is is damage control, nothing more nothing less.

 

[Bubbajay]

Anyone who thinks "the jews" did 9/11 are idiots. "The jews" didnt make NORAD stand down, responsible for the trillions lost in the pentagon budget, or cover it all up after the fact.

 

[Axl888]

I noticed you ignored my question on praying the way Christians of old did.

How true Christians pray?

Matthew 6:7-8

5 “And when you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they will be seen by people. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6 But as for you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door, and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

7 "And when you are praying, do not use thoughtless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard because of their many words. 8 So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

 

[AspiringSoul]

How true Christians pray?

Matthew 6:7-8

5 “And when you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they will be seen by people. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6 But as for you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door, and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

7 "And when you are praying, do not use thoughtless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard because of their many words. 8 So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

Jesus was talking to the lost sheep of israel/jews out of an existing context of vainglorious rabbis and fake piety. That was what, 1400 yrs of judaism later?

He was not talking to YOU. Just like the epistles were written for particular early christian communities/churches, they certainly werent designed for you in the contexts you exist in today or over 2000 yrs of Christianity.

There are many benefits of congregational worship. Why didnt Jesus acknowledge those? Why didnt they ask him of those?
The truth is you dont know if they did or didnt. These gospels are historical sources of information that only present a tiny sample of what really went down.

Did Jesus worship God in secret only or was he seen worshipping around his disciples and other people? I mean over the course of his 33 yrs on earth.

If he was seen by others even once, he was a false preacher....Matthew 26 is an example. He was certainly seen by people. Why wasnt he praying in absolute?
So he was a hypocrite not practicing what he preached?

Unless of course, what he preached has a wider context you arent aware of?

 

[Bubbajay]

I always hear people claiming Jesus only preached to the israelites, which isn't true. He was from Galilee, which was a gentile village. He also preached to the woman at the well who was a Samaritan.

Jesus said “And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”

 

[Maldarker]

Like you got room to talk by complaining about spelling errors above. Really? what are you, 10 years old?

Look Maldarker, let us make a pledge. The same one the prophet of Islam (saw) made to the Christians of his time.

Let us invoke Gods wrath, the curse of his angels, the curse of all of His creation upon whichever one of us are in the wrong. Let it be for all eternity.
Let it be upon us, upon our families, upon our parents, upon our spouses and our children.

Let it be written, let it be done.

I'm dead serious, but this has always been a game to you. I'll see you on judgment day.

Who's the child? Never said anything about spelling. Are you just stupid? Serious question. You go about being a pompous holier then thou POS to anyone that comments against you. You have been rude since day one talking to you I have tried to be pleasant but you have show who you really are. Really going to throw a curse at me and also make assumptions about me nice! Yup Pompous ass i stick by that.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

Its much more likely that the 8th and 9th century historians were correct as those historians lived closer to the time period. I find it odd that your theory only came out after the real facts were spread throughout the English speaking world. All your theory is is damage control, nothing more nothing less.

You and your "much more likely" come across about the same as the Muslims who want to justify this filth. It fits both of your desires... you to have something evil to attribute to Muhammed and Islam, them to justify these horrid practices... each ignoring the stone cold proof which has been thoroughly presented.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

Jesus was talking to the lost sheep of israel/jews out of an existing context of vainglorious rabbis and fake piety. That was what, 1400 yrs of judaism later?

He was not talking to YOU. Just like the epistles were written for particular early christian communities/churches, they certainly werent designed for you in the contexts you exist in today or over 2000 yrs of Christianity.

There are many benefits of congregational worship. Why didnt Jesus acknowledge those? Why didnt they ask him of those?
The truth is you dont know if they did or didnt. These gospels are historical sources of information that only present a tiny sample of what really went down.

Did Jesus worship God in secret only or was he seen worshipping around his disciples and other people? I mean over the course of his 33 yrs on earth.

If he was seen by others even once, he was a false preacher....Matthew 26 is an example. He was certainly seen by people. Why wasnt he praying in absolute?
So he was a hypocrite not practicing what he preached?

Unless of course, what he preached has a wider context you arent aware of?

I thik you both make valid points... in particular, I really feel this "And when you are praying, do not use thoughtless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard because of their many words. 8 So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him." is particularly important for those of monotheistic faiths to realize and remember. A modern example could be how Trump just kept repeating his lies over and over, louder and louder... it didnt make them true.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

I always hear people claiming Jesus only preached to the israelites, which isn't true. He was from Galilee, which was a gentile village. He also preached to the woman at the well who was a Samaritan.

Jesus said “And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”

What are you two arguing about? Jesus wasnt with the power structure of Jew or Gentile... Jesus was with the winos and prostitutes... the homeless and the orphans... the lepers and the criminals... those with nobody to advocate for them.

 

[Bubbajay]

You and your "much more likely" come across about the same as the Muslims who want to justify this filth. It fits both of your desires... you to have something evil to attribute to Muhammed and Islam, them to justify these horrid practices... each ignoring the stone cold proof which has been thoroughly presented.

Its far from "stone cold proof". Its nothing more than an attempt to paint Muhammad in a different less pedo way. Its revisionist history with a clear motive. Its rather odd this " stone cold proof" arises 1400 years after the fact. Islam knows its a major blemish on its already questionable past, why not rewrite history in your favor? Any reasonable observer can detect the BS a mile away.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

Its far from "stone cold proof". Its nothing more than an attempt to paint Muhammad in a different less pedo way. Its revisionist history with a clear motive. Its rather odd this " stone cold proof" arises 1400 years after the fact. Islam knows its a major blemish on its already questionable past, why not rewrite history in your favor? Any reasonable observer can detect the BS a mile away.

So what is my proof that you are denying? I havent even posted any in this thread yet genius, way to jump the gun. I have made it known that the proof comes from a scientific examination of both hadeeth and western accepted chronological documentation, but havent posted it in this thread... so enlighten us all to what "proof" I am referring to... without you even knowing what it is to conclude its faulty lol

 

[Bubbajay]

What are you two arguing about? Jesus wasnt with the power structure of Jew or Gentile... Jesus was with the winos and prostitutes... the homeless and the orphans... the lepers and the criminals... those with nobody to advocate for them.

So what is my proof that you are denying? I havent even posted any in this thread yet genius, way to jump the gun. I have made it known that the proof comes from a scientific examination of both hadeeth and western accepted chronological documentation, but havent posted it in this thread... so enlighten us all to what "proof" I am referring to... without you even knowing what it is to conclude its faulty lol

The Hadith doesn't prove any of your claims. And I supposed the people who "accepted chronological documentation" are none other than Muslim apologists lol.

 

[Lil axe]

so i'm reading kings at the moment, and alot of back and forth reminds me of what i read yesterday,
kings 18:25 (kjv) , elijah challenging followers of baal, the fire thingy

 

[TempestOfTempo]

The Hadith doesn't prove any of your claims. And I supposed the people who "accepted chronological documentation" are none other than Muslim apologists lol.

You have no idea what hadeeths Im actually referring to lol. As usual, you blather on out of ignorance. The people who engaged in the research to prove Aisha's age were both Muslims and non-Muslims. The people who did the work expended the effort to present a rock-sold case... which is why people such as yourself and the 6-9 crowd are BOTH so vehemently opposed to even admitting the proof exists, let a lone inspecting it for yourselves. The individual I first heard this from (who is published regarding the topic) was a Muslim convert, which explains why there wasnt a movement for this in years past. Islamic converts have put in much work to disprove this theological treachery, treachery which born and bred Muslims engage in. Have a blast promoting child-r*pe instead of confronting it... simply because you want issues to gripe at Muslims about.

Its clear by your posts here and elsewhere that you have a pattern of attempting to present your opinions as facts. I should have known better than to re-engage with you, but I thought if you are sincere... perhaps you would at least like to know the truth regarding the matter.

 

[Bubbajay]

You have no idea what hadeeths Im actually referring to lol. As usual, you blather on out of ignorance. The people who engaged in the research to prove Aisha's age were both Muslims and non-Muslims. The people who did the work expended the effort to present a rock-sold case... which is why people such as yourself and the 6-9 crowd are BOTH so vehemently opposed to even admitting the proof exists, let a lone inspecting it for yourselves. The individual I first heard this from (who is published regarding the topic) was a Muslim convert, which explains why there wasnt a movement for this in years past. Islamic converts have put in much work to disprove this theological treachery, treachery which born and bred Muslims engage in. Have a blast promoting child-r*pe instead of confronting it... simply because you want issues to gripe at Muslims about.

Its clear by your posts here and elsewhere that you have a pattern of attempting to present your opinions as facts. I should have known better than to re-engage with you, but I thought if you are sincere... perhaps you would at least like to know the truth regarding the matter.

Its all horseshit. If the hadith proved your point it would have come forward well before now, that's common sense. Its all Muslim apologetics, the catholic church has been doing these type of things for centuries. I guarantee it will be torn apart once an objective mind gets a hold of it. Mark my words.

Could you please give an example of where I posted opinion as fact?

 

[Bubbajay]

It shouldn't come as a surprise that Muhammad was a pedo, in fact the Quran mention prepubescent girls while talking about marriage and divorce. I quoted it on the "muslim verses" thread lol. Its only denied by people who want to give Islam a different image, its all admitted overseas where Islam started. The Hadish and the Quran has been picked apart for over a thousand years, but now all of a sudden in 2021 its proven wrong lol. Tell that to all the Muslim Imams who admit it all.